Re: It may actually run!

[Wayne Simpson <wsimpson@domain.elided>]

Richard Brake wrote:
> 
> If you've done a lot of major work yourself on the car at least you know
> its been done to a standard your happy with (or pick another hobby).
> Whereas you can be in the dark when paying for a fully restored car than
> could be a can of worms.

"Fully Restored" is a term that's misused about as often as "Rebuilt
Engine". It means a lot of things to a lot of people.

> I inspected a TR6 for a friend that was for sale at �7,500. The exterior
> respray was gorgeous the panel fit abysmal and the hidden bodywork
> (underneath and the engine bay) appalling.

The term was "State of Perfection", remember? :-) A badly restored car
is hardly in that state.

> I always discount the cost of parts for a restoration against the
> depreciation in value if I had a new/newish car.

If I had the choice, I'd have bought all of these cars new and
maintained them, as I have my TR8. What is "restoration", anyway? It's
trying to return a car to the state it was in when it left the factory.
I got my TR8 in that state and paid $10,400 December 1982 US dollars for
it (my car was a leftover purchased new with 21 miles on the clock). If
you bought a "beater" TR8 today for $4500 and restored it, I bet you
would pay a lot more than I have to buy and maintain the car all these
years.

> On the whole classic cars don't drop in value (excepting the stupid,
> highly inflated prices of the late 80's).

This never applied to the TR8, alas... 

But I do think they drop in value. Although the average selling price is
stable, the cost of restoring old cars keeps going up. So we buy old
cars on the cheap, invest a ton of money restoring them, and sell them
at a loss compared to the total investment. Isn't this a loss in value?

But let's face it, this is a hobby. We're supposed to lose money on it.

> I say restore it yourself and maintain it yourself. You wont make money,
> but you wont be throwing your money away when compared to buying a nice
> shiney new car.

So do I, if for no other reason than it takes cars at risk of being lost
for lack of care and gives them a future. But I also say you get what
you pay for. The idea of "doing it yourself to save money" is a myth. In
the end, you will pay more for a fully self restored junker than a car
already restored to the level you were hoping to achieve. Why? Because
the guy who owned the car before you has already done all of that and
sold the car at a loss because it wasn't really worth all he put into
it. This is just the reality of the car hobby.

As for shiny new cars, I don't think they can be beat for reliable
day-to-day transportation. The cars available today are, without
question, better than those we drove 20 years ago, at least in all the
tangible ways. My 92 Saturn SL2 has 142,000 miles on the clock and has
yet to break down in service. Ever. It's going in for a new clutch this
week. This the first major service to the drive train in 7 years of
ownership. It has no dents (plastic body), is as fast as my stock TR8,
and corners and stops better. 

My 94 Mustang has a similar record. In fact, every new car I've owned
has been more reliable and longer lived than the last one. Rust is
pretty much a thing of the past. I could never rationalize the hobby
cars as a replacement for the new cars I've owned. I own them for
different, less tangible reasons, just because I like them and they make
me feel good.

So I don't argue the desirability of buying a less than perfect car for
DIY restoration, but I would never say that it makes economic sense when
you add up the totals. I'm looking for a less expensive Stag to restore
myself because a $10,000 car doesn't fit within my budget just now. For
me, like so many others, it's this way or not at all.
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Wayne Simpson                                   wsimpson@domain.elided
                                    http://www.cybercomm.net/~wsimpson
     
     Original owner, 1980 TR8 #TPVDV8AT213188
     Posieden Green, Golden Tan Check

Brick Township, NJ                              I actively fight SPAM!
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