Re: Looking for a points plate

[Henry Frye <thefryes@domain.elided>]

Glenn,

Thanks for the excellent, informative post.

At 08:44 PM 1/22/99 -0700, Glenn Merrell wrote:
>	So what is your plan to tackle the electrical problem?  So far the advice
has
>ranged from buy new, don't buy new, repair the old harness.  I guess it is
time
>for my heypenny's worth.

>	There are at least 4 harness and multiple combinations of main, facia and
body
>harness configurations that could be on your USA Stag.  Most likely, Rimmers
>will only have the latest configuration for Right and Left Hand Steer
models but
>not for the USA models. This will limit your chances of locating a new
correct
>harness for fitting.  Once you determine the part numbers of the harness,
it is
>at least worth a call/fax/e-mail to ask if they stock it.    If you do
decide to
>start looking, there are two other places you might find the "right"
harness. 
>That is Eight Parts and Stag Specialists, both in Tuscon, Arizona.  It is
>unlikely you will find a New Old Stock NOS Stag Harness anywhere else
except by
>chance.  First, take a look at the suspect wiring, chase the harness back
until
>you locate a part number tag (hopfully it still is intact).  That will at
least
>give you a starting point to order from.  

I had a good conversation with British Wiring, Olympia Fields, Illinois,
USA. They stock (or, in the case of oddball colors, they can get) all the
original wire and the connectors I need to repair the harness. They sell
you any wire you need by the meter. There is an excellent article on
repairing wiring harnesses at The Vintage Triumph Register's web site:

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/wiring-harnesses.html

It was written by Dan Masters, the big Triumph List's electrical guru.
After exchanging a few emails with Dan, and reading the article, I am ready
to pull the main harness and repair it. 

The part number for the main harness for my car, LE13213UO, has been
identified by two sources. But, the part number is not stocked by any place
I have checked. I'm on my own!

>	Building a harness from scratch from BL schematics will be a crapshoot at
best,
>plus to do it properly, you will need spools of Lucas style wire of the
proper
>size and color codes.  There are auto electrical shops that have the
ability to
>custom fab any harness, or repair, to your specs.  Just pick up a Hemmings
Motor
>News and look under "Wiring" in the Services section, make some calls, ask
for
>references for other sources.  To do it properly, the shop will need the old
>harness so they can get the lengths correct, the right bends, and wires
popping
>out of the right spot in the harness, with the right connectors.

This is certainly possible, but I feel much more comfortable going the
repair route myself. One screw up in the fabrication of a new harness will
really ruin my day, not to mention the fact it must cost a small fortune to
have it done.


>The distributor issue and the electronic ignition module:  This is not your
>first Triumph, surely you have used the services somewhere that has seen a
>Lumenation unit.  The schematic must be around, instructions might be
available
>from another  person on the list who has the same unit to make a copy.
There is
>a trouble shooting section in the Lucas instructions that enable you to trace
>the problem to the module, sending unit, or coil.  If you decide to change to
>points, order the parts from Rimmers to make up the parts you need.  But I'd
>look for a copy of the Lucas instructions first (there is a Lucas web site
>somewhere), and fix the harness problems before the distributor.  If you
want to
>slap in a distributor with points to test, let me know, mine will not be
going
>in for another couple of months, and I can ship it to you.

I have been offered the schematic from Thomas Jell. Thanks Tom. He offered
to find his schematic, make a few relevant notes, and fax it to me from
Germany to the US. What a guy!

At this point, I really suspect the Lumenition unit has failed, so I have
not taken him up on it. FWIW, the Autocar website has a good
troubleshooting page. Tom pointed me to this as well.

http://www.denaploy.co.uk/autocar/tb05.html

>Start-n-die.  So how old is the gas in the tank?  How old is the gas in the
>carbs?  How long did it sit before starting?  Is the fuel pump pumping any
fuel,
>and for how long?  It may need to be torn down and cleaned, flush out the
fuel
>lines and replace the fuel filter.  US gas loves to grow neat little green
>crystal structures on brass needle valves when the gas sits too long,
blocking
>fuel flow.  Then there are the electrics, totally suspect to where there
could
>be an intermittent contact shutting down spark and/or fuel.  Lots of
variables
>there.  Again, take care of the harness first, then test circuits out one
at a
>time looking for faulty accessories that caused the shorted harness. 
>Identifying the wire(s) melted will point you to the bad accessory(s) and
>disconnecting them until you have tested each one.

I have received many people's comments speculating fuel problems. I have
good documentation the car was driven 4000 miles in the past year. The
gauge shows 1/2 tank, and the gas smells fine.

One of the portions of the wiring that is effected by the damage is the
fuel pump circuit. When I got the car home, the first thing I did was put
my 12V battery charger in the boot, and put the hot lead on the hot
terminal, and the ground on the ground terminal. The pump came right to
life, it ticked fast for about 10 ticks, then slowed to a few slow ticks,
and stopped. Since the car had not run since last fall, I think that was
about right to fill the line and the fuel bowls. The DPO cranked the car a
lot trying to get it to start, not realizing he had no power to the fuel pump.

I then hooked the red wire from the Lumenition unit to a switched hot on
the fuse box, and turned the key. The engine started immediately. It ran
smoothly, the engine was not shaking a bit. It responded to throttle as if
it was hitting on all 8 cylinders. No black smoke, just smooth as silk. I
really was impressed. Ran for 5+ minutes, and quit. After a few minutes, it
restarts like nothing is wrong, runs a few seconds, and stops as if the key
is turned off.

I hooked up my timing light. I started the engine and watched the flashing
light. The light stopped flashing simultaneously with the engine starting
to wind down. It is clear the engine had stopped getting spark. This is an
ignition problem.

Both the coil and the Lumenition module are getting 12V as the engine
quits. The problem is either the coil is overheating and shorting, or the
module is. I will swap in a good Lucas 12V coil today, but I am quite sure
now the problem is the Lumenition Module. I have a few leads in my search
for a stock points plate and coil for testing purposes. When I have those
parts, I will have a much better handle on the situation.

>Okay, shot my wad, your turn.
>
>In My Humble Opinion, Yours for speculation!

As always, I appreciate your comments. I can't wait to get this car on the
road! If only this ice would melt...   ;-)
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 Henry Frye - thefryes@domain.elided - Connecticut, USA
 TR3B   TCF1927 L   	Driver          
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