Re: Has any one tried this?

[jlandry@domain.elided (John A. Landry)]

I just *had* to respond to some of Doug's comments.  Please don't think I'm
nitpicking here Doug, I'm just trying to help a potential buyer (Nick(
separate reality from aftermarket ignition hype.  There of course are just
my observations and opinions...

As the putrid festering facial boil erupted, Doug Rasmussen
<76075.2276@domain.elided> yelled:

>>Nick Cuskey wrote:
>>I was fliping through 4x4 magazine, and stumbled across this jacobs
>>electronics ad.  They had the ultra pak for the scout, which consisted
>>of sparkplug wires, power coil, a computer to sense
>>altitude/weather/load conditiions and adjusts your spark accordingly.
>>They say you will get atleast a 11-12 HP gain off of stock (345, 220 HP)
>>and a 2-2.5MPG increase.  Also an increase of 10% in low to midrange
>>torque.  $479 is what they quoted me.  I'ld like to try it, but I
>>figured I should check with the experts first!<

Can you say RIPOFF???

Do not pay that sort of money for an aftermarket ignition system!  Doug is
absolutely right... if you want an aftermarket ignition system, buy it
through either Summit Racing (www.summitracing.com) or Jegs (www.jegs.com).
Calling Jacobs direct is like calling a sleazy used car salesman for advice
on where you should buy a used car!

The wild performance and mileage claims of Jacobs need to be understood
also.  They are probably not lying about their claims however.  Let me
explain... Take any engine with a worn out and neglected ignition
components and replace them with a new modern ignition system, and you bet
you'll see some excellent results!  However, you can duplicate many of the
same results by simply doing some proper preventive maintenance.  Just by
spending a few hours and a few dollars replacing the plugs, plug wires,
cap, rotor, points, condenser, cleaning and lubricating the distributor,
fixing vacuum leaks, etc., you can easily gain back *lost* performance.  I
seriously doubt Jacobs took a top condition engine, added their ignition
system to come up with the impressive sounding performance gains.  Rather
I'm willing to bet the took a normally neglected engine, added the system
and *of course* saw improvements!  This isn't rocket science.

I've said it here before and I'll say it again... These aftermarket
ignition systems are *generally* just an expensive coverup for neglected
maintenance and worn out parts.  Having said that, they do in fact offer
some real improvements over a stock breaker-point ignition systems and even
some of the more modern electronic ignition systems.  Easier starting and
higher resistance to killing the engine at low rpms are pretty universally
accepted improvements everyone experiences.  Cleaner burning plugs is
usually also a result from the higher voltage output capabilities of the
aftermarket systems.

>  I bought the Jacob's OmniPak which is a computer and coil combination. 
>Summit Racing (1-800-230-3030) sells it for around $200.   I recommend
>Summit instead of buying direct from Jacob's.  Summit has better prices and
>a "no questions asked" 90 day return policy.  If you buy and don't notice
>any improvement, return it for full refund less shipping !  I don't think
>Jacob's return policy is so liberal.  Note: Summit can get any Jacob's
>product even if it's not listed in the catalog.

Again... *excellent* advice from Doug!

>  Unfortunately, I bought my OmniPak direct and was convinced by the
>salesman (Jacob's sales people are high pressure) to buy their spark plug
>wires.  Supposedly these wires are custom fitted to the IH engine.  It
>turned out they don't have a custom fit set for IH and they sent an extra
>long generic V8 set.  What a mess !   All the wires are all at least 6-8
>inches too long !   Summit sells a number of brands of high quality
>"universal" wire sets that allow you to fit to the correct length for your
>engine.  You need new wires with the higher output of the Jacob's ignition.

For a company that puts out such an excellent product, I'm appalled at the
sales tactics Jacobs has resorted too.  I don't trust a single thing there
boiler room salesmen say, and unfortunately I will never buy their products
because of such misleading tactics.  I'm a professional buyer by trade
(Purchasing Agent) and I got my fill of BS from one of these guys in about
5 minutes.  I heard just about every high pressure telephone sales tactic
in those 5 minutes than I've heard in the last 10 years.

>  As to performance gains, You will notice a power increase.  Much easier
>cold weather starting was one thing that was readily apparent.   I assume
>my mileage has increased. Because of the way I use my Scout, mileage is

I wouldn't necessarily assume anything!

>kind of hard to monitor.   If you have a points distributor, your points
>will last forever.  Spark plug life will increase too.  My OmniPak was

Ahem... I'm sure Doug was just exaggerating a bit as the breaker-points
will not quite last "forever" when used as a trigger for an aftermarket
electronic ignition system.  It's true they will last *much* longer than
when used in a stock system, but they still do slowly oxidize and need to
be replaced periodically.  How long???  Reports vary, but I'd say it'd be
wise to swap them out maybe every 25,000 miles or sooner.  They are pretty
cheap, so once a year is a good practice.  Don't forget rubbing block wear
on the breaker-points affects your timing, and rubbing block wear will
continue as normal.

>first installed on an oil burning, plug fouling engine.  The OmniPak kept
>the plugs clean. 

If your stock ignition system needs maintenance now, then yes, the Jacobs
probably will help things.  However, I purchased and installed an MSD 6A
(more about MSD later) on my IH engine, which I have always maintained in
top mechanical condition.  Prior to that I had the standard IH Holley gold
box electronic ignition, which BTW is a very good ignition system... save
for the gold box having an affinity for failing unexpectedly.  Up until the
time I had installed the new ignition system, I had been spending lots of
time tweaking things (carb tuning, timing, etc.) to squeeze out every last
drop of fuel economy I could from my V345A, so I had pretty much reached
the fuel economy limit.

I believe the MSD 6A system (which I also included MSD spiral core plug
wires, a Blaster III Coil, and Bosch Platinum plugs) that I installed to be
in every way a functionally equivalent to the Jacobs OmniPak.  I noticed no
fuel economy increase whatsoever with the new ignition system (and I have
kept an accurate spreadsheet of every gallon of gas I've purchased since
buying my Scout in 1996).

I further didn't notice any discernable power increase, although I'd have
to say the engine maybe idled smoother.  But I don't have a dyno in my
garage to verify any before or after change either, so who knows!  I really
don't care, because I'm not drag racing!

I have to agree with Doug that with the new ignition system, the benefits
are that I can run a huge gap on the Bosch plugs and they seem to stay
cleaner.  Starting performance is slightly better and I also have more
ignition system options now (I can trigger the ignition several ways).  But
other than that, there isn't much change.

>  So anyway, in conclusion, I'm satisfied with my Jacob's.  Other than the
>plug wires, I'd buy the same thing again, but from Summit not Jacob's.  
>BTW, an MSD system might be just as good as Jacob's.   I think Jacob's
>technology may be a little more sophisticated than the capacitive discharge
>system that MSD uses.

Funny... MSD thinks their system is better than Jacobs and Jacobs thinks
their system is better than MSD.  For a stock IH engine, I think these
systems are functionally equivalent.  Personally Nick, I'd shop price for
*usable* features as a priority.  While shopping, keep in mind how you
might want to use the ignition system in the future.  If you might someday
want to use a magnetic pickup to trigger the system, can that new ignition
system accommodate being triggered that way???

Would I Buy and install the same system again?  Yes, but I'd have much
lowered expectations as to what the results would be and wouldn't swayed by
the Jacobs sales hype!  Personally I don't think you *need* to spend your
money on a Jacobs or and MSD system.  Come to think of it, if I were to do
it again, I'd spend my money as follows... First completely refurbish
(disassemble, clean and lubricate, reassemble) a point type distributor so
it's in top mechanical condition (or trade your in for a rebuilt unit with
a lifetime warrantee at a local chain auto parts store).  Into that
distributor, buy and install a Pertronix solid state "Ignitor" conversion.
This device replaces the points and condenser inside the distributor with
an electronic ignition module.  Buy and install an MSD Blaster coil and any
high quality 8+ mm plug wires and platinum spark plugs.  Carry a set of
points and a condenser in the glove box.  With such a system you'd have the
consistency and durability of an electronic ignition system plus backup
redundancy if needed.  That system would be more than adequate for an
otherwise stock IH engine.  To top it off, I've never heard of a Pertronix
Ignitor failing (I have heard of MSD, Jacobs and Crane systems failing),
but if it did, you could pop the breaker-points and condenser back in and
be on your way again.  Although they are neat to have, and offer some
benefits you don't *need* multiple sparks.

>Doug, checking in with my $.02 worth. 

John checking in with my $0.03 worth.

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